Comments

  • 1-7 of 7
  • Ray Heffner

    when engines die suddenly it is almost always electrical in nature.  Personally I have only bought two new carbs for my OPE in my almost 40 years of repairs.  One for an old (left outside) snow blower I got dirt cheap and another for a lawn mower that someone repaired and lost carb parts for.  Gas vents and soft gas lines won't cause sudden deaths when running.  They act more like a plugged exhaust screen, bogging down and slow acceleration.  Vacuum leaks can give varied problems.  If an engine seal is slowly dying it will respond with sluggish acceleration (like that exhaust problem) or simply not let your engine start because it can't suck gas from the carb into the crankcase.  Dirty carbs give similar responses.  How do you determine which it is?  If you use a 50:1 gas ratio them you probably don't have a plugged exhaust screen.  Does the engine performance seem to be getting sluggish more and more each week?  Make a compression check, if the engine runs when you squirt gas into the carb then you probably have a vacuum leak in the crankcase.  Rear gasket or front seal, either is possible.  the rear gasket is the easiest to check, the front seal is more involved and requires lots of speculation and tearing apart the weed eater.  Unless you have a high end trimmer, this is the last resort repair work.  Save your money on replacement gas tanks and fuel lines or carb work when your engine dies suddenly.  Luckily points and condensers are a thing of the past except for some older Stihl gear.  Probably the weirdest electrical problem encountered (like the spark plug wire listed here somewhere) is a broken on-off switch that was hard to see.  Weak sparks are subjective to what you have seen in the past and the current use of resistor plugs.  Plugs act a little differently in a cylinder under compression and with wet gas.  Gas is a conductor and will short out a plug with a weak spark.  New coil time. 

  • Ray Heffner

    how does it run when it is running?  Does it sound like it is starved for fuel?  My first idea is the coil is breaking down so check for a good spark right after it fails.  Some rough running can be attributed to a bad seal in the front of the engine.  It might have a good compression but the vacuum from the crankcase isn't enough to suck in fuel from the carb.  It takes longer to find, buy and install those seals than most trimmers are worth. Let us know what you find on the spark.  Not just any spark but a good one. 

  • Ray Heffner

    I think the problem is the carb or ignition from your brief description.  The carbs are factory set to meet EPA guidelines but that has nothing to do with operating properly.  The OPE manufacturers have had a rough time making machines you like and want to buy again after the EPA shoved their rules down their throats.  If you can still find them on E-bay and if your carb can be adjusted, try buying the carb adjusting screwdrivers that fit your carb.  There are 4 or 5 different shapes.  For a while, the EPA made it impossible for you to buy these tools.  But they weren't buying you a new trimmer either. 

    It sounds more like an adjustment problem of the carb.  A bad diaphragm or needle set would not cause that problem especially since a new carb was substituted.  If you had screwed up and left old gas sit in the carb over winter, it might have gummed up the carb.  But since it's been having problems for a while, I doubt that was your problem.  Before you invest any money in adjusting tools, check the compression and the cylinder condition.  If they are a problem then don't waste much money on a repair. 

    From experience I have noted that if you bring a running unit in and they tell you it's a carb problem, they either don't have the tools to adjust the carb or it has a possible timing problem.  I have another entry in here telling of a 128LD trimmer that ran bad because of how the spark plug wire was routed in the case.  That simple of a problem, no simple solution though.  A new carb wouldn't have fixed that problem and a new coil didn't fix it either.  But if you ran the unit with the cover off, it ran great.  Put the cover on and it ran like crap.  With problems like that the MFG wants to try simple fixes like the carb and coil and hope that you eventually give up and go away. poor customer service.  I can't blame the seller because he makes very little commission and warranty repair costs are so small he can't even pay the technician for the labor without losing money.  They will provide the part and some silly sum like $20 to the seller to do warranty repairs that last an hour or more to troubleshoot let alone the paperwork and repair actions.  If the repair technician is making minimum wage, he might break even.  In some cases, it's cheaper to lose you as a customer than to invest lots of money to fix your unit and make you happy.  Carb adjusting tools are forever.  The will fit in tool box until you need them.  Almost every carb made has an adjusting screw, but unless you have those tool, you won't be able to even play around.  The EPA has great intentions but reality doesn't seem to fit into their lives.  My neighbors vintage auto looks like a mosquito spraying truck in Miami.  He calls his 25 year old roto-tiller Smoky for a reason.  And the country bumpkins burn their leaves and trash every fall.  But your tiny 30 cc engine might cause some glacier to melt by depleting the ozone. 

    Try the free test first, remove the front cover and see if it runs better when the spark plug wire is moved.  If that fails, consider the carb adjusting tools.  A lot of MFG's make great larger engines but the smaller ones have problems because the tolerances are so small. 

     

     

  • Ray Heffner

    Ron Albright had a good suggestion to replace the spark plug with a resister plug and widen the spark gap.  Sounds like a cheap fix that works.  I think the problem is with the coil producing too high a voltage / current and the plug wire acting as a small antenna.  Sitting so close to the coil, this is induced back into the coil and that upsets the normal transformer action of the coil.  I tried to make this comment on his reply but couldn't find it when I logged in.  But I want to give him credit for his perseverance. 

    I hear a lot of people bashing brands like Husqvarna, Stihl, etc.  I have no preference to a certain brand.  I have a Stihl chainsaw and for many years my cheapo Weedeater trimmer kept my yard nice and my sons lawn cutting jobs going.  If I were to comment on anything, I think I would throw some blame on the EPA for some of the rules these engineers and manufacturers have to work under.  It must be hell trying to produce a fair to good working small engine when you have to deal with tough EPA rules and cheaper gas.  Even the fuel lines used can't hold up to the E85 fuels.  Unlike your car, your poor little trimmer doesn't have 3 or 5 more pistons helping to push the load.  Maybe it's just me, but I don't see hundreds of trimmers or chain saws polluting the air with anything other than noise.  My neighbors poorly tuned vintage car spews out more crap than all the trimmers I l fixed last year.  But hey, it goes from 0 to 60 in micro seconds and he has a legal right to keep that 4 wheeled gas tank because it's a part of American history.  But the rest of us have to endure poor performance and short lived OPE because someone thinks your 26 cc weed monster may endanger a hamster somewhere in the tropical rain forests in a country where the people are still eating bugs off the ground.  They even made rules so the average Joe can't even buy the tools needed to adjust those carbs that power engines that run on drops of gasoline.  As we all know, a gas engine will only run properly in a very narrow range of gas / air mixture.  Just how much can a person adjust that carb and keep it running?  Is it even possible to miss adjust the carb so badly that it still runs but belches out pollution?  My neighbor burned his leaf pile last fall but nobody in uniform bashed his door down.  The wide fires scorched thousands of acres of land and you tossed another $100 trimmer into the land fill because it wouldn't run right.  Where's the logic ?  That one airplane, used to douse the fires, put out more pollution, than all the Husqvarnas manufactured last year combined.  It can't be easy trying to design this stuff, stay profitable and comply with laws. 

    I'm curious, is there some place you can take your dead OPE and recycle it?  If we have stuff that dies so early, where is the concern about tossing it into the landfill?  I don't remember the older trimmers and saws belching out smoke, but since they lasted a lot longer, there were less in the scrap pile.  Has one ideal over ridden logic?  I'm sorry, I'm just ranting on.  Some states have mandatory emission tests your car must pass before you can get plates.  Will we have to get our small engines certified yearly or forfeit it to the government.  Then they can toss it into the land fill. 

     

     

  • Ray Heffner

    The type of 2 cycle oil you use is important too.  Most stores sell you those little bottles for easy premixing.  It works but I prefer the oil for snow mobiles better.  These usually come in 1 quart bottles and you can refill those smaller bottles for a whole season (or two) of use from that one bottle.  Use it in your chainsaw, leaf blowers and other stuff like post hole diggers too. 

    The use of the engine is the issue here.  Most 2 cycle engines are designed to run at WOT wide open throttle so they can use a different blend of oil.  A 2 cycle snow mobile is designed for varying throttle positions.  The smaller engines have a hard time of burning the oil additives causing the ash problems they say they prevent.  I think they are referring to the spark arrester screen getting clogged by unburned oil and causing the engine to bog down.  Remove the screen, hold it in a pair of hemostats and hold the screen in front of a propane torch until it glows red, burning off the oil deposits.  Wire brush, reinstall.  Back to my last post, I would rather clean the screen and replace the plug every year or two than replace the entire weed trimmer or chain saw.  I have a Stihl concrete saw that suggests a higher oil ratio mix for the first 3 fuel tanks then going back to the leaner mix.  The saw is almost $400, I'll stick to the higher oil blend.  The E85 fuel is getting some bad hits for causing engine problems.  I mentioned the fuel line problem before and can see premature cylinder wear in 2 cycle engines.  They don't have the oil lubrication like a 4 cycle so any thing they do to cheapen the stuff can't be good for your gear.  It's well known that E85 isn't as good as the normal unleaded gas in your big car, I doubt it helps that poor little engine at all.  It sounds stupid but look at the cylinder head, the outside of the head.  Remember what that head looked like brand new?  A head that got too hot has a darker color, a blue black look.  Reminds me of the exhaust pipes on a motorcycle. 

    I read a lot about people replacing the heads of their small 2 cycles.  Before going that way, check the compression.  Most manufacturers don't tell you the "correct' compression because there are many variables, including the local temperature.  They will tell you to check it after warming up the engine.  Generally values of 125 and 150 are good.  Let's be real, you don't have a problem after the engine is started.  You have a problem getting the engine started to begin with.  The compressions values I listed in my previous post are for a cold engine, when you first try starting it.  The values I gave are good indicators of it's future life expectancy.  The engine will probably start at those values, it may be hard to start but it should still start.  No shop is going to put rings in a $200 mower and certainly not a $100 trimmer. The labor costs are prohibitive.  A compression tester is pretty cheap and accuracy is not critical since the readings are relative anyway.  If your want to check it for accuracy, put it on your air compressor with a good digital tire gauge to verify the values.  The compression tester you buy aren't laboratory quality so their accuracy is fair at best. 

    Having a low compression on your mower and wonder what might help.  Take off the head.  Look at the cylinder for scoring or odd light reflections.  Over time, the movement of the piston will cause uneven wear on the cylinder and in a small way, makes it oval shaped, mostly pronounced at the bottom of the piston bore.  These are usually perpendicular to the engine shaft.  A few thousandths means a loose seal in the rings.  If you have the time and want to re ring the piston, take it apart and determine if you can use a new set of original sized rings or if you need oversized.  Does the top of the cylinder have a lip and you can't push the piston out the top of the cylinder.  You need a ring reamer to remove that lip.  More importantly, that mean the cylinder is worn and you will need over sized piston and rings.  If there is no lip, try installing a regular sized ring set and check the end gap before installing them on the piston.  I've seen old rings so badly worn the end gap was almost a quarter inch.  A new set should be about 5 or 7 thousandths.  Low compression rings are in the 20's or more.  Check the end gap at the top, middle and bottom on the cylinder.  You might have to do a light honing to round things out.  As you know, bad rings can cause high oil consumption and also cause more oil to fill the valve tappet area of the engine and (depending on the engine design) feeds back into the carb, clogging the oil filter or out the breather tube leaving a puddle of oil on the floor. 

    I guess I should mention the disclaimers.  No matter what you do, you are still fixing an old engine and they usually have one or more problems.  No matter what you do, you will still have an old engine.  Your hopes are to extract more life from your toy at minimal cost, because you certainly aren't going to get like new performance from an old engine.  Many times I would have liked to slap our customers that bring in a dead 10 year old machine and expect their $75 repair should give them like new performance.  Many places charge $50 an hour or more so that bill includes labor and a few parts. Prayers are free, miracles cost more.  If you take your toy to some repair shop and he advises you that it is wasted money, listen to him.  I know you can find some shop that will take your money and attempt repairs, but it's still an old machine.  If he advises against the repair, and you have some DIY skills, ask if he has a similar machine in his scrap pile he'll sell for the parts he thinks you need.  Many customers donate their old stuff to them for parts.  Some of the junk we got, it wasn't even cost effective to put needle valves in the carbs because the 1 hour labor cost alone exceeded 50% of the equipment cost.  Go to YouTube, watch a few videos, buy the parts and play around.  What's the worse you can do?  Lose a part or completely kill an engine that was at death's door anyway?  Sure beats spending $75 on a $100 dollar engine.  Shops don't want to lose money attempting to repair low priced stuff.  It seriously dips into their small profits. 

    An odd place to look for problems on the smaller 2 cycle stuff, seals and gaskets.  Ok, many cheap engines don't use seals and gaskets are rare too.  Many weed trimmers have plastic covers screwed directly to the engine and they become loose overtime.  The compression will be good but hard starting.  That's because that bad seal / gasket is not creating the vacuum in the crankcase to suck in the fuel mix.  Loose engine covers, carb plumbing with small holes, even loose cylinders cause those problems.  I once repaired a chainsaw that wouldn't start and made a clicking sound when you pulled the rope.  The cylinder head was loose.  The movement of the piston was pushing the cylinder up and down, making that clicking sound.  Many of the screws used on those cheap trimmers and saws are self tapping.  Add an external star washer if possible or thread locker. 

    I've got a few years fixing engines small and big.  From Poulons to Gravelys.  I'm sure I don't know it all and like getting advice from people.  My trophy wall includes everything form cheapo trimmers to front end loaders, small back hoes and a Ditch Witch or two.  A healthy mix of commercial and residential stuff. 

    I've had a ham radio license since the early 80's, KD8CCV.

    Ray

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • Ray Heffner

    The answer Husqvarna gave us was that the ignition module might have shellac on it, when used to seal the module.  They suggested we remove the module and clean the metal to metal contact points.  We noted no shellac but cleaned them anyhow.  Same problem.  My real passion is electronics, having attended college for electrical engineering.  I hold an FCC license too and repair electronic equipment as a hobby.  OPE repair is fun and I am pretty good at it. I did it for years and still help my old boss when the tough ones come in.  I have an idea that possibly the high voltage spike generated in the coil (for the spark plug) may be causing it's own problem.  Since the wire is routed so close to the ignition module, it is easily possible for it to induce a spike in the coil that could adversly affect the coil's performance.  Causing a voltage that is out of phase with the coil.  I tried slipping a piece of coax shielding over the plug wire in that area and got better performance.  Not perfect but better.  This supports my idea of the induced voltage causing problems.  The problem is the coax shield was too thick to fit nicely back into the confined space of the housing.  I never got around to experimenting past that point but my next option would have been to place a thin aluminum tube or shield in the area of the coil.  Aluminum, being a soft metal, greatly attenuates induced voltages, it is often called a farad shield when installed in transmitters.  Thin aluminum is thinnner than the coax shield I used, but you might have to get creative to install it to isolate the spark plug wire and the ignition module without shorting stuff out.  I feel it may fix some problems. 

     

    For those that want some money saving info, most modern 2 cycle OPE is designed for a 50 : 1 fuel ratio.  Did you know it was the EPA that mandated that?  Years ago in the mid 90's, the EPA was trying to make sense of the small engine, non highway engines and discovered just about every manufacturer had it's own standards.  Remember the old "good, better, best equipment?"  The EPA has developed some standards that help you in that regards.  Look at the stickers on the equipment, there are 3 categories:  50 hours, 125 hours and 300 hours.  Good, better, best.  The idea is that in that hour rating, 50% of those models are now in the trash pile.  After 50 hours of operation, 50% of that particular model are trashed.  The 50 hours stuff is fine for most home owners for some stuff.  125 hours is intermediate duty and 300 is more considered commercial duty.  The EPA has even made it harder for you to buy the tools needed to tune your own carbs.  I tried to put some logic into this.  They will let my neighbor run his gas guzzler, stinky car without a descent muffler or catalytic converter but they are worried your little 23cc engine might cause some smoke.  If your want your 2 cycle gear to last a little longer, raise the gas oil ratio to something like 40 to 1 or 32 to 1.  It will lubricate your cyclinder better and help it last longer.  You MIGHT have to change the plug once a year or clean the muffler spark arrester screen but that's a lot cheaper than a new chain saw or weed trimmer.  I doubt the EPA will pay to replace your equipment when it fails because of that dumb idea.  I see too many engines destroyed by insufficient lubrication, scored cylinders and pistons. 

    Should you bother to fix that saw or mower?  Here is the idea we use, check the compression.  On a 2 cycle engine, if it doesn't have at least 90 psi, don't waste your time on it.  It's not just about compression but the vacuum in the engine, the vacuum that sucks in the fuel.  It will still run but it's life is limited.  It will be harder to start especially in the cold when the rings and piston are a few thousandths smaller.  Four cycle engines?  60 psi is our criteria.  Be careful here because some engines have a compression release that makes it easier for you to start and gives a lower reading than you would expect on a compression test.  The compression release is really the exhaust valve staying open a little longer because of a centrifical lever on the cam shaft.  You can't tell by looking at it but a general idea is that most 6 hp rope start engines probably use some sort of compression release.  The easiest way to tell is to look at the exhaust vavle and determine if it is opening for a longer duration than normal.  If you remove the cyclinder head to do that, it's also a great time to wire brush the vavle seats and look for oil in the cylinder. 

    Compression readings are like an EKG for your heart.  If you plan on buying used OPE at a flea market, take a few tools and check the compression.  The vendors often prestart that chainsaw and warm it up, making it seem easier to start when YOU look at it.  If you pull the rope and don't get the chug chug chug, maybe you should look at another engine.  Check the cylinder with a small flash light and look for scoring.  You can't fix that without a new cylder and pistion.  If it's a 4 cycle engine, check for fuel in the engine oil.  That is usually caused by a bad needle and seat in the carb.  It allows the gas to drain into the engine.  Install a fuel shut off valve and a new needle and seaat set. I hate those engines with an electronic solenoid under the carb, designed to shut the fuel off at the closest point to the engine and prevent back firing when shut off.  This causes more poor running engines than mostthings I've seen.  The tolerances are pretty tight in that small area and we're talking about a tiny device bouncing around your yard every weekend.  It will fail eventually. 

    Have a twin cyclinder engine on that yard monster of yours?  make sure both cyclinders are working.  Compare compression ratings between cylinders and check the plugs.  That might sound silly, surely you would know if one cylinder was dead, right?  Those engines have gotten so big it WILL run on one cylinder.  I discovered one dead cylinder simply because the spark plug was cold after running for a few minutes.  Popped the head and discovered one valve rod had fallen off the loose lifter and the bottom exhaust rod was missing, inside the engine I assume.  So if you are taking your equipment in for service or doing it yourself, check that compression and make sure the whole engine is working.  Oh, how did I suspect something was wrong with that bad boy?  When I engaged the PTO, the engine bogged down more than I thought it should have.  I checked the plug and went looking from there.  I have no idea how long it was bad.  The customer brought in the mower because the PTO wouldn't engage.  The battery was almost dead which prevents the PTO from working and the charging system was dead.   The deck lift hardware was broken and I still can't figure out how he bent the deck hardware.  How hard do you have to hit something to cause that kind of damage?  This man shouldn't own a mower. 

     

    Most of the fuel line sold for small OPE is not compatable with E85 fuel.  If that is the fuel you have, expect to change it yearly. 

     

     

  • Ray Heffner

    I have serviced countless brands of OPE over the years and just discovered a problem with a few 128LD trimmers that make it almost impossible to run right.  We removed the covers at the shop and discovered the engine ran FINE when the spark plug wire was removed from it's normal routing by the bolt hole.  When you placed the spark plug wire back into it's proper place, the engine would bog down and die.  This was attempted with a new ignition module with the same results.  There  are only two wires in the area, the spark plug wire and the grounding wire for the ignition module.  Flexing the wire did not affect performance but when the wire was placed back into it's proper place around the bolt hole, the engine quickly died.  No sharp edges or burrs were found.  Both the new and old ignition module had the same results.  If the shop were darker, I would check for leaking electricity like with wet car spark plug wires.  Other new spark plugs were swapped in the test with the same result.  In both cases, the spark plug wires were very clean, one was brand new.  Any ideas would be appreciated.  Dielectric grease?

    128LD.doc (252KB)